'Race/ Ethnicity' Emerges as the next big issue for Gay Society'

The topic always emerges. Gay men are also now in the grips of a re-evaluation of what gays should or should say/do/think about race relations, racial equality, and the differences between preferences (likes/dislikes) and prejudices.

There are excepts from several gay online discussion groups and my own reactions posted therein.

brzldude Brazil : São Paulo	Follow up: brzldude 17 Feb 2010, 05:45 Asians, I Love them! !
bcbud4u Canada : British Columbia :	Follow up: bcbud4u 17 Feb 2010, 11:07 Asian guys are cuties.
sn2rxn Canada : Alberta :	Follow up: sn2rxn 23 Feb 2010, 12:32 would love to date other asian men. but thanks to the institutionalized self-loathing that occcurs where i come from, it's become quite difficult.
sunbuns99 U.S.A. : Hawaii / Tokyo	Follow up: sunbuns99* 28 Feb 2010, 10:01 I'm very curious about what sn2rxn says. Are you a recent immigrant to Canada from an Asian country? Or are you talking about the way other Canadian guys of Asian descent who were born and raised in Edmonton feel about themselves? I live in Japan - a place where there are relatively very little other races of people (yes, there are long-term immigrants (1st-, 2nd-, 3rd- or longer generation families from Korea, China, Southeast Asia, even India but very very few) Most Asian immigrants have completely assimilated through inter-marriage. So I know what's it like to live for decades as an extreme racial minority (being the 'standard' caucasian white guy) in a 99.7% Japanese society. I work in an organization that has over 7000 employees but there are only 2 full-time 'white' people (and probably less than 40 other ethnicities represented). For the most part, I don't feel discriminated against. In fact, there tends to be the opposite effect -- kind of a reverse (positive) discrimination. But that has its drawbacks too. Others assume I'm better than I really am at some things and then don't expect enough from me for other things. There is a constant stress of overcoming intercultural communication barriers - but I cannot completely understand WHY things happen as they do. Language isn't the issue - it's the underlying values, attitudes and expectations about how things are supposed to (or not) work. I always run into some conflict for 'suggesting' or insisting there can be a solution to some 'problem' when others don't even see the problem exists. Of course that could happen in any society/situation - but it is more of real, daily problem when you are an extreme cultural/racial minority. Japan and the US could not be more opposite culturally in many ways. Of course, it makes life 'interesting' (tranquil smile)

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PROFILE PROHIBITIONS - Wright or Rong?
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Poster: (deleted) It makes me wonder why or how this user was deleted.
18 Dec 2009, 02:03 Hi everyone,

Lately I've been reading a lot of profiles on gay.com, dudesnude, and manhunt that have messages like
- "no fems fats or Asians"
- "Don't do blacks"
- "Asians need not apply"

From the other forums I've read it seems there are two views:

1. There is nothing wrong with having racial preferences.
2. It is racist to exclude people in this way because there is no single physical trait that is particular to one race.

Perhaps most people agree that everyone has preferences and they can do little about them, but I find it curious that so many list people they are not interested in as opposed to listing those whom they are seeking out.

Another related issue is that minority groups often get fetishized -- i.e., some men are into them exclusively -- i.e., "rice queens," "bean queens," etc.

I'd be interested in hearing about people's views and experiences in these respects. Rather than just having short messages like "luv asians here" or "blacks don't do it for me," I am hoping to get an interesting discussion going.

What are your feelings and experiences on these issues?
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Follow up: lkngaround
14 Feb 2010, 01:27

i think i can sum this up...

those of us who are minorities in a eurocentric world have a very different experience when it comes to race as it relates to sexual appetites. those people are simply more likely [dare i say entitled?] to bitch about this experience.

those of us who are heavier in a world where slimmer and more muscular are seen as more attractive have a very different experience when it comes to physical build as it relates to sexual appetites. those people simply have more reason to bitch about this experience. [count the profiles that state they're only into "fat" guys]

even if someone states in a profile "no white dudes" or "no rippled torsos," it'll sure hurt a lot less. fact of the matter is, mr. white-and-fit has a billion other dudes to choose from. he's in a place of privilege.

when this gentleman joins a thread like this, i imagine he'll be one of those who say "it's just a preference! it's just taste! it's not racist! it's just what i'm attracted to!" seen it time and time again.

mister asian/black/overweight has a smaller pool to pick from, so it's not something to be brushed off that blithely for him. and to add insult to injury, there's a very good chance that when someone does notice this guy, it's in a fetishistic nature, so he's made out to be someone's teddybear/bigblackrapist/servileandrogyn ouseasiansextoy.

this isn't all. of importance are: possible self hate in minorities, colorism [skin color preferences within races] which only introduces ALL the same issues but on a different level of racial breakdown, the question of "nature vs. nurture" [do we like who we like because we just do, or is it because of the popular aesthetic? could we actually enjoy the intimate company of someone we write off as 'not our type'?]

etc.



i'm not going to complain that this thread has been started for the millionth time. i love the dialogue. i just ask that anyone who posts be willing to question what they've held to be true, and put themselves in everyone else's shoes for a minute. it's a lot to take in, but taking in a lot is what we do ;-)

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Follow up: blka'dam [msg]
20 Feb 2010, 16:31

i am a black guy from south-america living in the netherlands,and i find it rather disturbing when people very clearly state ,no blacks/asian or what ever in there profiles/adverts.it makes me wanna puke,just coz of my skin color u are not into me.i would much rather see people stating what they are looking for and not what they are NOT looking for.,but then again everybody is free to like what they will.and i do not think we should classify these people as being sexual racists,just not into blacks/asians is a personal preference.and on the otherhand let`s not forget all those "white"chocalatechasers who will fuck with anything not caucasian.

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Response from Sunbuns (Kelly)

It's difficult to respond - seriously or almost to even attempt to treat the subject of sexual preferences as defined or limited by a person's race intellectually (notwithstanding emotionally / psychologically) ... but I'll try (and have done so elsewhere at times before on DN).

It's seem I'm 'damned if I do' (want something / somebody of my own 'race' or not my own), but also 'damned if I don't ' (for not being 'open').

Now am I supposeded to feel guilty for marrying a Japanese (from whose race and country I was not born into)?
Am I a racist (kind of reverse discrimination if I author a gay blog devoted to admiring Asian men (although I'm mainly caucasian)?

I know the discussion finished here a week ago (last posting was Feb 20), but it's still an ages-old discussion and far from reaching a satisfactory conclusion (yet)....


How I can we breach the irrationality of these two seemingly opposite concepts (A vs B) below (taken from the post just above this one).

A. "everybody is free to like what they will, and I do not think we should classify these people as being sexual racists"

B. "Let`s not forget all those "white" chocolate-chasers who will fuck with anything that's not caucasian"
(quoted from above)

So are you (we/he/they) saying that:

if you're 'white' and like/love men of color, then you are are a 'sexual racist' who wants to overlord his ethnically inferiors as sexual conquests (post-modern colonialism).

But if you are black (or another racial group) and love/like white guys, then you are just expressing your inner preferences and exercising your rights (as gay man or human or wherever they are derived)?

One pandemic error that I am convinced is rampant (among billiions of human) is the way that the 'race' question gets reduced to simply black and white distinctions. I am not talking about human skin colors (B/W).. I mean - right/wrong, good/bad, left/right -- polarizing things by categorizing everything into extremes:

Democrat / Republican, Christian / Muslim, Gay/ Straight, Racist/Humanist (?), Fem/Masculine , Top/Bottom...

Extreme racial prejudice that becomes a life(style/purpose) full of discrimination and deliberate isolation from other races is not what most people are thinking when they casually refer to someone or his profile's turns-on/ turn-offs as 'racist.'

An 'ethnict' - closed-minded refusal to accept different ethnic groups is how this 'mentality' is sometimes (and maybe more appropriately) called.

In other places, that belief system is called 'religion' (LOL - sardonic grin!).

Maybe could adopt a more specific term, such as:

Against other races -->
anti-Asian, anti-white, anti-black, anti-African, anti-Semitic, anti-Hispanic, anti-ethnic, anti-diversity, anti-GWM, anti-GAM

since these termrs are specific and might be better words/ways to describe a person who admits (very crassly)

The point is that he wants to avoid having to peronally tell someone that he prefers his own racial group to fuck/suck or from some other specific ethnic group when someone 'contacts' him on DN.
He'd rather be perceived as a closed-minded and fixed in his preferences than to be thought to as a jerk, or crass idiot. (Weird ... ?)

Proposed solution:

We could adopt 'tags' or words that everyone could recognize (and understand) more clearly in our profiles:

POSITIVE (For) : Pan-Ethnic, Pan-Ethnist (a person who likes all race and ethnic groups.

For example, Pro-Asian vs Anti-Asian (of course, this has a political interpretation, too - so it might not work).

Or for someone who's isn't sure, or doesn't actually know until they would actually meet a person of a different race, and get to know him, they could say something like:

Negative Tags (or at least less insulting (?)

White-selective, Asian-selective
or something a little stronger (leaning one way or another)...
such as...

Black-Restrictive / White-Prohibitive


Just think about it, meals in hospitals and airliners on long haul flight (well.. when you used to get meals) were designated as: sodium-free or low-sodium diets / meals..
lactose-free, carbohydrate-restricted..

Perhaps .. some people could use similar words "racially and politicallly (more) correct ways" (?) to describe their attittudes and preferences:

Example:
I'm a caucasian-tolerant, Asian-restrictive,
Black-preferring GAY MAN.

Not a perfect system .. but a start (or maybe you think I joking -- I'm not).

It took us 3-4 decades before the term 'PC' (politically correct) emerged and become part of US national discourse and everyday English language.

Maybe the gay community as a subgroup of the larger society (subset of the human mega-civilization) is at a point where it needs to come to grips with 'racially correct' terms and discourse.

I think the larger US (and other large civilizations, such as the European Union) is currently getting a better grip on how to handle 'diversity-friendly' or on being diversity-correct.

All of humanity still has a while to go before we reach the same general consensus on racial equality and how to speak of it and how to discuss racial inequality, too.

Respectfully submitted,

Kelly (sunbuns) http://kelly-sb.blogspot.com